What now in Libya?

This conservative views with no satisfaction the increasing chaos in the Libyan coalition! Sunday, the The Arab League secretary general, Amr Moussa, “deplored” the braod scope of bombing and said he would seek a meeting to re-consider the approval given by the Arab League. Russia and China, no surprise, are also decrying the Libyan action. Germany is uneasy with the bombing and Italy is threatening to withdraw permission to use its bases unless there is a NATo command. Norway has not sent the jets it promised, and Turkey is now calling for only limited NATO involvement.

You know, this whole debacle highlights the problems with liberal philosophy. It looks good on paper but seldom survives in the real world. it is great to talk about the US being “just one of many nations” and all that blather. But when the time comes to put the chips on the table, or pay the bills, or TAKE THE LEAD where are our “willinig partners”? The whole coalition is now playing “hot potato” with the whole “leadership” thing. They all want Ghaddafi to go down, but none of them want their fingerprints on the knife in his back!

Meanwhile, we continue spending upwards of 100 million dollars per day and  we have no idea when that will end. Who will we “hand over” command to if no one will take it? And what is our rational for this whole operation? What is victory and who defines it? Going forward, does this mean wherever and whenever there is a shooting war in the world where innocents are in danger of getting hurt, we are going to be the cop on the block? If not, how do we justify this action? And why is the “innocent” American taxpayer being mugged to pay for this police action?

Bottom line. We have the most inexperienced President in our lifetime with the possible exception of Jimmy Carter. We have entered a war – regardless of what they want us to call it – in all the wrong ways. No defined mission, no withdrawal plan, no national interest at stake.

I warned you the day the shelling started that this was a mess, a war of choice we made hastily and in an ill considered way. And who knows what price we will ultimately pay? This conservative views this as possibly a bigger mistake than the trillion dollar “stimulus” plan. And that is saying a whole lot!

If you enjoyed this post, please consider leaving a comment below or subscribing to the RSS feed to have future articles delivered to your feed reader.

5 comments for “What now in Libya?

  1. Greg holman
    March 24, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    I think your comment about Obama’s inexperience is not quite fair. I would say he has just as much experience as the Great Ronald Regan- who also bombed Libya.

    In terms of being in a nebulous war and fearing about what that means and the potential end game, i second your concern. None the less, there are plenty of military operations we can point to where we led a bombing campaign and simply left it at that- Iraq had a no-fly zone from 1992 to 2003 and was intermittently bombed. We have at times already bombed Libya and have a history of conflict with them.

    In terms of your statement that we have: “No defined mission, no withdrawal plan, no national interest at stake.”

    A. We have no troops, so there is no need for a “withdrawal plan”.

    B. National Interest- before you suggested we were doing this for oil and national interest, now you say we have none. Either way I don’t think we need a National interest when a country is on the verge of Genocide against it’s own people.

    C. no defined mission- I think we do have a defined mission, a no-fly zone that was approved by the UN. As of now, that is our mission. While we of course would love regime change, that is not the priority or mission.

    In the end, I agree that it is uncertain when we are “done”. Then again we had a no fly zone over Iraq for 9 years. If we took away Qaddafi’s ability to execute mass killings of his people than maybe that is enough.

    At least the president is willing to be honest about the uncertainty rather than telling us fairy tales about weapons of mass destruction and being treated as “liberators” when we arrive (cough: Donald Rumsfeld/ Dick Chaney et al.) This is a complex situation and I am sure there is information we are not privy to.

    The 100 million dollars was for the first day because of all the missiles we fired, those babies are expensive and we are the only ones who have them (Britain had a few). but now the air defense is down, cheaper fighter jet sorties are being relied on. The cost in Iraq today is 177 million per day, and that is low compared to the cost at the zenith of our engagement. This war will no doubt have a financial consequence and i agree that we cannot afford to keep it up for too long.

    When you talk about “innocent” American tax payer, were you using those words at the beginning of Iraq war? I am going to guess no. Why must everything be seen through the prism of politics. Hey papa bear Bill O’ Reilly is for the mission, it can’t be too bad!

    In terms of the slippery slope argument that you put up, let me say slippery slope is an overused argument to paralyze action that is often a strawman. Choosing when, where, and why we get involved is decided on a case by case basis because conflicts are so complex we cannot and should not have a formula to decide when we enter a conflict. I agree that this can lead to a seemingly capricious choice of conflicts we do and do not enter. I personally wish we would have had more resolve in Rwanda to stave off a horrible genocide. There are atrocities all over the world and you are right that we cannot always do something about it and even when we do, our actions can have destabilizing and harmful effects- look at Cambodia that was destabilized from our bombing campaigns and the subsequent Pol Pot genocides or our backing of the mujaheddin in Afghanistan against the soviets (that came back to bite us).

    This world is a complex and often dangerous world and we certainly need to get our house in order. The question remains, can we sit ideally by while a ruler of a country goes on TV and says he is going to go house to house and massacre everyone? If we can put a damper in his ability to execute mass killings and take some of the pressure off his anger from his own people to us, perhaps that is all we need. I don’t know the answer, it is not simple, the world never is so simple. All i know is that I sit and prey for this conflict to be settled in an acceptable manner. I pray for the safety of the Libyan people and the safety of our men and women in uniform. May this conflict end quickly and with as little blood shed as is humanly possible.

  2. March 24, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Well i must leave shortly but let’s take a few of your points:
    1. If you break it – you own it. Tell me now what we are gong to do – leave Ghadafi in pwer to do on the ground what we farbad him doing in the air?
    2. Reagan Bombed Libya? he sent a few well aimed missiles after Ghaddaffi and shut him up for thirty years. when the final price tag is in we’ll see who got the most for their money and we may have to reconfirm that phrase “The Great Reagan”.
    3. Obama has as much experience as Reagan? Did I sleep thruough his governorship of California for 8 years and 20 plus years of writing and activity in politics? Oh that’s right, He served in the Illinois Senate from 1997-2004 and served the U.S senate from 2004 until a few months afterward when he started campaigning for the presidency. Zero executive experience, zero business experience, zero national political experience… I wouldn’t draw that comparison were I you. I could go on about Reagan’s experiecen but…?
    4. I suggested we were doing it for oil. Period. I also suggested it would serve our national interests much better to drill our own oil.
    5. the 100 million dollars is the suggested figure per day for ONGOING expenses. @ $600,000 per the missiles are only a small part of it.
    6. to compare this to the Iraq war is almost breathtaking… I’m gasping but I’m making it. If you mean the same arguments Obama made against the Iraq war about it being a war of choice I guess I follow you?
    I could go on but I’m late. we have NO IDEA who will take this country after we leave. And we have very little voice in it either. After all our blood, sweat and treasure this may very well end up being an Al Quieda victory, handed to them by us. As for your argument that we must prevent bloodshed against innocents let’s see how much blood we have already shed, and how innocent the replacements really are. In a civil war it is easy to call folks innocents – just take the guns off the corpses and viola! you have a civilian since they have no uniforms etc.

  3. Greg holman
    March 24, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    On Ronald Regan versus Obama. Let’s look at the stats. Ronald Regan was 55 when he entered office. He earned a BA in sociology and economics from Eureka College, a small liberal arts school that is considered a “tier 1” regional college, not great not bad. He spent 8 years of his life grounded in American military bases, while intermittently acting in b movies. He was an elected member of SAG-screen actors guild and testified about the communist in the film industry. He went straight to be the governor of California, which is impressive and was governor for 8 years. He was defeated in his first run for president in 76 and finally won it in 1980. He was older so he should have some amount of more experience, based simply on his age. All in all before he was president he had 8 years of elected service as governor of one of the largest and most wealthy states in the union. no doubt good experience but nothing huge.

    Now lets turn to a quick synopsis of Barack Obama. He was 47 when he became president, 8 years younger than Reagen. Obama transferred into Columbia and received a BA in political Science and Foreign Relations. he worked as a community organizer for two years in Chicago before moving on to Harvard Law School and graduate maga cum laude. He wrote two best selling books and taught at Chicago law school. he was a state senator for 7 years, and a US senator for 3 years. 10 years total public service, more than Ronald Regan, albeit it at a slightly lower level.

    In terms of comparison they seem somewhat comparable. Obama has a law degree which is a common characteristic of Presidents, while Ronald Regan had the executive experience which many Presidents have. I can only imagine the revulsion the republican party would have if a Democrat had Regan’s background, liberal Hollywood cliches and all. I don’t know. Seems relatively even if you ask me. feel free to disagree, i’m sure you will.

  4. Ed
    March 25, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    “If Gadhafi survives, the crisis will go on and on. If Gadhafi falls, the crisis will go on and on.”
    Peggy Noonan

  5. Jayses Kroist
    April 15, 2011 at 6:34 am

    You, sir, are an idiot.

    If McCain had been elected and taken the same actions, you’d be cumming yourself over yet another war to waste money and lives on, just like you did for Iraq and Afghanistan.

    You say we have no purpose for going into Libya. I agree – I hate that we’re getting involved there. But we had no more purpose for Iraq, and we may have once had a purpose for Afghanistan, but we accomplished that mission long ago, and nobody knows what the fuck we’re doing over there. Killing brown people, I presume, is what you so love about it.

    Get a fucking brain, you moron. We’re in Libya for the same reasons we’re in Iraq and Afghanistan, so if you oppose one, you oppose them all. As for what those reasons are, your guess is as good as mine.

    Maybe Obama should start supporting pro-life, anti-gay rights, anti-unionization, pro-corporation views. I honestly think, if he did that, and still called himself a democrat, then we could trick a sizable percentage of dim-witted republicans like you into supporting all the opposite policies. You, and people like you, clearly lack the mental capacity to realize that this behavior would reflect liberal views, which you claim to oppose.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *